By John Addyman
LYONS (Oct 25 10) – What would you do to reduce your Wayne County tax bill?
This morning, members of the Board of Supervisors’ Finance Committee were working on the 2011 budget and tossed around three ideas that could each net a $5.4 million reduction in county expenditures or $5.4 million in increased revenues – a potential tax savings of $1.10 per $1,000 in assessed valuation for each idea, or $3.30 in total (The county tax rate is now $7.82/$1,000, varying by town).
Wayne County leaders are facing a universal budget problem this fall – the increased contributions demanded to fund the state retirement system for county, town and village employees. At the county level, that one line item in the budget shows a $1.5 million increase, to $6.7 million – an increase caused by enhanced benefits promised in Albany – but the bill comes due locally.
Another major problem is the nursing home, which is still waiting for IGT (Inter-governmental Transfer) money from the state. “If we don’t get IGT and other reimbursements,” said County Administrator Jim Marquette, “there will be a cash-flow issue at the nursing home.”
“Don’t they have money in their CDs?” asked Supervisor Bob Plant (Walworth).
“They should have enough,” said Marquette said, “but if nothing happens (in terms of reimbursements), we will have an issue.” The county expects an IGT check for $2.7 million next year. “If that IGT goes away, we’re in big trouble.”
“I truly believe that if the IGT goes away, there’s no way we can fund the nursing home,” said Supervisor Kim Park (Wolcott).
“They don’t want (the) public (sector) in this business,” said County Fiscal Manager Keith Kubasik.
“All these regulations are killing us,” said Marquette.
Saving Tax Dollars
Then Supervisor Ken Lauderdale (Savannah) asked about saving tax dollars by not giving county school districts the $5.4 million out of sales tax revenue that has been traditionally shared.
Sales taxes the county collects bring in $33 million in revenue, $5.4 million of which now goes to school districts, and $5.7 goes to towns and villages. The remaining $22 million goes toward county expenses.
“If we reduce the $5.4 million dollars we give the school districts, and each $1 million of savings is 22 cents per $1,000 in assessed valuation, we can reduce taxes by $1.10 overall,” said Lauderdale. “Would the school districts have to come up with the $1.10?”
“No,” said Plant. “It would be less.”
Kubasik explained that the school districts would have a shortfall in the first year of the program, but after that, the state would pick up the difference in state aid. “There would be a blip in the first year after we did this,” said Kubasik. “After that, things would level off (because) the school districts would be getting more aid from the state.”
He also said there was another $1.1 to $1.3 million on the table in STAR payments back to the county. And he said Wayne County was one of the last five in the state to pay a portion of sales tax receipts to the schools.
“We’re the last of the Mohicans doing this,” said Park. If the supervisors decided to take this approach, “We’d have to give fair warning” to the school districts.
Kubasik said he had spoken to a school district business official who said if the county is thinking about such a move, it should be done “in one fell swoop,” rather than gradually, “so we can get the aid back quickly.”
Lauderdale asked if there were some way the county could suspend the sales-tax-receipts payments to school districts, yet still keep the districts whole “without it showing up as revenue?”
“No,” said Kubasik, that would be illegal. As far as continuing to make such payments, he asked: “What do we know that 57 other counties in the state don’t know?”
“If we could take $1,10 out of a business’s taxes, that would be significant,” said Lauderdale.
“There hasn’t been support on the board for this,” warned Plant. “The school district argument is that their budget gets voted on by the residents and when they see that increase (because of the sales tax revenue shortfall), their budgets will get voted down.”
Kubasik had two other ideas that could raise $5.4 million – a tax on home delivery of propane and fuel oil, and a hotel and motel tax (which is paid by visitors, not residents). “We’re one of the few counties that doesn’t have them,” he said.
The Finance Committee will convene again Thursday at 9 a.m., with Marquette seeking direction on how the supervisors want to proceed in this budget. The county has already gone through a process where department heads prepared their budgets and submitted them to Marquette, who made initial cuts. Then the department heads took those revised budgets to committees for agreement.
Now the Finance Committee has its look at the budgets. County Treasurer Tom Warnick’s budget was cut this morning, eliminating a Chief Account position that has been open for 10 years. Although Warnick said the position was required to provide proper separation of duties – something noted repeatedly in audits – he had not seen a qualified resume at the dollars the job pays ($55,000).
Marquette said he will get a sense from the committee how to proceed in terms of outcome of the budget, and if he will be the one to make finals cuts or the committees will bring department heads in again for reductions. The preliminary budget is due Nov. 15.
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Sarah Taft Said,
and if the schools lose that 5.4 where do you think they are going to get the difference Supervisors? We the taxpayers!! DO NOT count on the state to make up for it if you take it away, they are cutting the funding to school they have for 2 years in a row now.
DON'T do IT you will make our taxes go higher LEAVE THE 5.4 MILLION alone!!!
Posted on Mon Oct 25, 02:40:00 PM EDT
Anonymous Said,
Comment to "Supervisors Finance Committee Ideas on Reducing Taxes"
I already pay over $6,000 per year in school taxes. I do not have children that go to school here. So what is my benefit for these taxes. Between the school and the town and county, I am being taxed out of house and home. If you stop giving the schools their portion of sales tax revenue sharing collected, they will only raise our school taxes. Our vote on the school budget is a moot point. We need to get rid of the mandates.Such as, Why should we the residents of Wayne County have to pay for the school, town/village and county employees retirement and health care. NO ONE is paying for my health care or retirement but ME. It's time that school, town/village and county employees start footing their own health care and retirement bill. What happens with the money the county is suppose to save on the recycling that they are no longer going to be responsible for come January 2011. Where is this money going? Or did the county supervisors already frivolously spend it? What measly benefit will I realize for my $5,400 town and county taxes I currently pay? In regards to a "bed” tax; There are not enough beds (hotels, motels, B&B's) in Wayne County to bring in $5.4 million in a tax. Moreover, if they do impose a "bed" tax they need to consider the fishing lodges AND cottages that rent beds out daily, weekly or monthly as well. Furthermore, this "bed" tax should go towards the promotion of tourism in Wayne County, which that budget line got slashed nearly in half. The "bed" tax should NOT go towards the nursing home, county, town/village employee’s retirement and health care. Wayne County supervisors voted in themselves a raise this past year. HOW are they really controlling their cost?
Posted on Mon Oct 25, 04:29:00 PM EDT
Anonymous Said,
The Town of Sodus and Wayne County just took over Beechwood State Park. WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GET THE MONEY TO MAINTAIN THIS PARK? Sure there are SOME volunteer groups to go in and hack it all up. Never mind the history and the five eco-systems. The town and county will be asking us to cough up MORE TAXES.
Posted on Mon Oct 25, 04:36:00 PM EDT
Sarah Zaso Said,
Actually anonymous we have MANY many volunteers and a whole college class working on Beechwood. We don't need to ask the the toen and county for anything. All the work will be done as volunteers. Alot already has been done concerning beechwood. Come on Jon own your opinions oops I mean anon.
Posted on Mon Oct 25, 05:10:00 PM EDT
Anonymous Said,
On the sales tax sharing issue. When the program was begun many years ago the idea was to share sales tax with the schools after their budgets were prepared by giving the money to them to lower the school tax rate. Soon, the school districts started adding the sales tax money in when they planned their budget. Public schools are giant sponges that will soak up all the money you give them. That is what they are trained to do in college.
Posted on Mon Oct 25, 07:30:00 PM EDT
Mike Riley Said,
Over here in Cayuga County we have seven school districts for 80,000 total residents. How much money could be saved by combining school districts, or combining administrative staff under the BOCES system? How about consolidating governments, getting rid of all villages? Many states do not have village or town governments and they get along fine. Read the report put out by the state about consolidating NYS government. But don't pick on the workers, no one gets rich working for the government. I pay over $600 a month for my family insurance, plus put money in my retirement. Tier one employees don't pay a cent, so pick on the old timers, if you must pick on someone.
A few years back, Weedsport wanted to charge more for garbage collection, but didn't want to say that they raised taxes, so they didn't. They just charged a per bag fee. Just observations from across the river.
Cheers.
Posted on Mon Oct 25, 10:35:00 PM EDT
Anonymous Said,
If they are serious on cutting spending they could have saved 17 million they spent on the old nursing home. Why do they need more office space when the size of staffing has not increased. Also quit hiring all the high priced help such as Marquette.
Posted on Mon Oct 25, 11:36:00 PM EDT
Tax Hacker Said,
What crap again. This says the Supervisor's are going to try to save $5.4 million? Thats crap, let me explain what they are talking about doing. They're not talking about saving they're talking about using the state as the middle man again......
Let's review.... For the 2009 year during budget time the County Supervisor's Originally thought the nursing home would only lose $700,000 (original). Two months later the budget was revised to show that they thought it would lose $1 MILLION. At the end of 2009, the Nursing Home had actually lost $5.5 MILLION.
For 2010 the Supervisor's think the Nursing Home would lose $2.5 Million. (I had offered a public bet over and over in the paper) - if the Sups lost less than $2.5 mil on the nursing home I'd do 100 hours of service to the community.... No takers. They are on track to lose over $2.5 million this year.
So, in an attempt to save money, the Supervisor's want to withhold money to the school districts, and create new taxes.... got that?
Their logic is if they withhold the $5.4 million then the state will have to pay up $5.4 million to the schools. The $5.4 million the County has is sales tax revenue - the state, or county aren't "taxing" for those funds. It is a fixed tax that people pay when they spend. HOWEVER, if the county withholds the $5.4 million, the STATE will have to tax us an additional $5.4 Million to give our school districts the money. Got that? They don't have to come up with it now because it's there, but if the County doesn't give it to the schools, that equals more state taxes.
A constant that I experience going to meetings and watching these guys is they don't have a clue. They seem to not understand that money from the State, is still money from Taxpayers. On the budget, they list funds from the State as "revenues" when it's not - its still money out of our pocket. If the county does something that forces the state to increase our taxes, taxpayers are still paying more. The county is just using the state as a middle man.
I think Addyman is great, I just wish he would've made this piece a little more clear as to what they are talking about doing.
This "floated idea" by a bunch of bumbling fools does not translate into any savings. It just gives the county $5.4 million to play with, lets the Sups claim they are trying to save money while placing the blame on the state - just like I say they always do. "ITS NOT US ITS THE STATE!" ITS BECAUSE OF WHAT THE SUPERVISORS DO! IT IS NOT THE STATE! IT IS THE FOOLS WE ELECT TO LEAD THIS COUNTY!
This "floated idea" is their plan, so that they don't have to admit they are wrong and actually MAKE REAL FREAKING CHANGES TO SAVE MONEY! Like selling the nursing home...
The nursing home lost $5.5 million last year when it was believed it would only lose $1 million. This year its a predicted $2.5 million loss. Anyone want to bet the county is looking for $5.4 million because the nursing home is real going to have lost $5.4 million - $7.9 million by year end?
This plan is such crap, such an attempt to play taxpayers for fools. Its unfortunate that the average person cant UNDERSTAND this piece in its totality without going to months and months of meetings.
Posted on Tue Oct 26, 10:51:00 AM EDT
Jon Said,
What crap again. This says the Supervisor's are going to try to save $5.4 million? Thats crap, let me explain what they are talking about doing. They're not talking about saving they're talking about using the state as the middle man again......
Let's review.... For the 2009 year during budget time the County Supervisor's Originally thought the nursing home would only lose $700,000 (original). Two months later the budget was revised to show that they thought it would lose $1 MILLION. At the end of 2009, the Nursing Home had actually lost $5.5 MILLION.
For 2010 the Supervisor's think the Nursing Home would lose $2.5 Million. (I had offered a public bet over and over in the paper) - if the Sups lost less than $2.5 mil on the nursing home I'd do 100 hours of service to the community.... No takers. They are on track to lose over $2.5 million this year.
So, in an attempt to save money, the Supervisor's want to withhold money to the school districts, and create new taxes.... got that?
Their logic is if they withhold the $5.4 million then the state will have to pay up $5.4 million to the schools. The $5.4 million the County has is sales tax revenue - the state, or county aren't "taxing" for those funds. It is a fixed tax that people pay when they spend. HOWEVER, if the county withholds the $5.4 million, the STATE will have to tax us an additional $5.4 Million to give our school districts the money. Got that? They don't have to come up with it now because it's there, but if the County doesn't give it to the schools, that equals more state taxes.
A constant that I experience going to meetings and watching these guys is they don't have a clue. They seem to not understand that money from the State, is still money from Taxpayers. On the budget, they list funds from the State as "revenues" when it's not - its still money out of our pocket. If the county does something that forces the state to increase our taxes, taxpayers are still paying more. The county is just using the state as a middle man.
I think Addyman is great, I just wish he would've made this piece a little more clear as to what they are talking about doing.
This "floated idea" by a bunch of bumbling fools does not translate into any savings. It just gives the county $5.4 million to play with, lets the Sups claim they are trying to save money while placing the blame on the state - just like I say they always do. "ITS NOT US ITS THE STATE!" ITS BECAUSE OF WHAT THE SUPERVISORS DO! IT IS NOT THE STATE! IT IS THE FOOLS WE ELECT TO LEAD THIS COUNTY!
This "floated idea" is their plan, so that they don't have to admit they are wrong and actually MAKE REAL FREAKING CHANGES TO SAVE MONEY! Like selling the nursing home...
The nursing home lost $5.5 million last year when it was believed it would only lose $1 million. This year its a predicted $2.5 million loss. Anyone want to bet the county is looking for $5.4 million because the nursing home is real going to have lost $5.4 million - $7.9 million by year end?
This plan is such crap, such an attempt to play taxpayers for fools. Its unfortunate that the average person cant UNDERSTAND this piece in its totality without going to months and months of meetings.
Posted on Tue Oct 26, 10:51:00 AM EDT
Tax Hacker Said,
Stupid thing said it didn't post, but then it did - hence two of the same posts....
On the topic of comparing school districts, I have been working on some real world comparisons.
I use Sumner County Tennessee a lot because I have family there. They have a $500k house and pay $1500 a year TOTAL in taxes. As well as no state income tax.
They have a county wide school district. Their county is almost the same size (square miles) as Wayne. However they have just over 27,000 students in their county wide school district. Wayne has just under 17,000 total in all the districts. Sumner Counties school budget is $186 million. The combined budget of the 11 districts in Wayne County is $287 million.
We have 10,000 LESS students but spend $101 million more.
Quality of Education? Sumner County District has won all sort of US and TN awards and recognitions. Wayne, and NY's schools rank in the BOTTOM 10 of the NATION.
It doesn't make sense. We are being played for fools
Posted on Tue Oct 26, 10:56:00 AM EDT
Tax Hacker Said,
As for saving money on not hiring Marquette, I think Marquette is the smartest man in the room. I can't even begin to imagine how the county operated before Marquette.
When you go sit in these meetings, it is literally like Marquette is the Special Ed Teacher in a room full of Special Needs Children. If it wasn't for Marquette when the Supervisor's are suppose to be working on budgets they'd be making paper airplanes and seeing who can stick their pencil the farthest up their nose.
Posted on Tue Oct 26, 11:00:00 AM EDT
Anonymous Said,
Jon- relatives in Tennessee? That tells me something always suspected.
Posted on Tue Oct 26, 12:45:00 PM EDT
Anonymous Said,
Hacker- Get a job and stay off this blog. You are not welcome.
Posted on Tue Oct 26, 12:47:00 PM EDT
Anonymous Said,
I do not believe NY schools are under Tenn. schools. I do think we need to give less to lower functioning kids and give more to general and gifted kids as they are our future. Anytime I hear lay offs it is not ot special Ed but general ed. and this is where most of our tax money goes(people that will always be on the system). This is a society killer.
Posted on Wed Oct 27, 06:11:00 PM EDT
Jon - not scared to share my name.... Said,
Yes, I have family in TN. After my uncle got discharged from the Army Rangers he went and got some Nuclear Engineer Degree thingy and moved out of state. Few years ago he built a half million dollar house in Nashville.
My cousin (another high degree earned working for Louisiana Pacific) was just talking to me today about how TN is overflowing with smart people - all the smart people flee the NE and go to TN, leaving ding dong democrats and leeches here in NY....
What could it tell you that you've always suspected "Anonymous?"
Actually NY ranks in the bottom 10 for education in the US. I think Prince Andrew quoted it as 43 out of 50. Yet we spend the most per student. TN ranks higher.
And the teachers and admin here in NY will claim that NY's schools are "excellent" In fact the Union has a commerical out about how NY's schools are so great. It's like living in N Korea or Iran, everyone is brainwashed into thinking everything is "excellent"
No, actually, according to the facts NY is not "excellent" in anything except failing.
Posted on Thu Oct 28, 04:37:00 PM EDT
Anonymous Said,
I still do not believe NY education is so low. I know they just won the Race to the Top for top national education awards.
Sounds like most places in the south that have transplanted northerners who do the thinking work.
Sounds like it is time for you to move!! To the paradise you found.
Schools were all hurt by George Bushes No Child Left Behind. Unfunded legislation which requires huge sums of money diverted by law away from regular kids. Of course the problem was it had little federal funding. So local school districts left with real problems and ignorant tax payers.
Posted on Fri Oct 29, 10:01:00 AM EDT